Hostility and RAGE!

[lulznein]

I would like to bring something to the attention of the regulars of this server. Recently, there has been a rash of hostility, yelling/screaming/cursing over both text and voice, and over-all jackassery occurring on the server, and I would like to get to the bottom of it.

After the collapse of TLO, this server is now the new home of all TLO refugees, myself included. I really enjoyed that community, and it sucks to see it go (despite the differing views I may have had with the admins there). Some of my fondest gaming memories were playing on TLO, especially in the OCWs. I have and always will love and cherish those times. Taste of Death is just like home. I get to play with the same people as before, and get to meet new and interesting people everyday.

By coming here, and playing with the this community, I had hoped to rebuild and renew my interest in day of defeat pubbing again, as well as helping build a new home for myself to play in. I still hope to get Operation:AAMO running, but we're gonna have to put that off for a few months.

There is apparently some hostility between myself assorted other members of the server, and I would like to get that resolved so maybe the rest of the server won't get drug into it.

There has always been a good-natured rubbing / joke making between the Bobberts and the TLO/TOD community, but lately its getting out of hand, culminating in some extremely harsh things said by multiple members, and then some good old fashioned kicking to sweeten the pot.

What I would like to know is this. What about myself, or anyone that I choose to play with frequently, rubs everyone so harshly that you feel the need to berate, accuse, threaten, or even remove from the server without so much as a how-do-you-do? I would really like to get this resolved, or at least out in the open so that it can be evaluated.

I really enjoy playing with this community. I do not enjoy getting yelled at, cursed at, and having one of my friends removed from the server without so much as an explanation.

Hodgie, I would really like you to answer me this time. What about me pisses you off so much that you want me gone?

And finally, to lighten the mood, I present to you, drama squirrel.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vtXRI32MQ&NR=1

Bobbert.Wulf out.

[Painkill]

Well first,

Hi again to all ex-TLO regulars and to all TOD players. As some of you might know I have been myself involved in a ( friendly ) Bobbert hate campaign over the years playing on TLO. But correct me if I am wrong, but it has always remained in a clean state and good taste. The reason for this hate campaign has always been simple, the Bobberts have been around the TLO community on and off , but always seemed to reappear in due time to kick the regular's ass.

What was the starting point of this tendency to bash the bobberts whenever ( we ) could, was probably their way and especially Wulf's was of bragging about his troops and all the jealousy that emanated from seeing some of the regular TLO players join the Bobberts because they had the reputation of beign the best group of players around.

Personally I always liked to be the underdog and surprise everyone as I step out, this is probably why I loved so much beign one of the ( official ) Bobbert hater and be categorized as such. As I already stated on the TLO forums a while ago, I am not really hating anyone, this is all a game and we're all here for good clean fun, and I hope this remains this way.

I do not feel like this message is directed to me, but I do feel that my 2 cents we're required here as I have been involved myself for quite some time now in some Bobbert hating process.

To settle it all, I would like to suggest that we bury the hatchet and take the opportunity offered by this switch of server to take a new start , settle these old demons and let the bullets fly peacefully once again.

Thanks to all the players who make this community my favorite place to play, now that TLO's gone, long live TOD !

Peace,

Painkill out !

[Trinity]

Ok you have asked some good questions here and I am going to add my 2 cents into the mix. Only cause you asked though.

We all know there has always been bobbert bashing (good or bad) ever since I started playing this game, and more then likely that will not change. Most of the regs from TLO that play on ToD bash and can take the bashing. It was always a back and forth thing. There have been times that both a bobert and or a reg (I have done this) took it a bit far.

My problem with you guys right now, and yes its going to come at you like a question. Feel free to answer or not.
Why do you feel that you (and your other "friends") must change your name every time you frequent this server? I take that as you are trying to hide who you are.

There is a great bunch of people here in this server, that includes the AAMO group as well as the regs. I see so much crap going on anymore, things I cant beleive I just witnessed and things that I brush off to lag (yeah we have a bunch of that as of late) but there are time where I can honestly say that shot was so full of it that I wish I can hit that button and out the door that person will go, but hey I dont cause I beleive in the fair measure to all players.

[Admin]

Let me serve notice here:

This is a discussion thread! I suggest you read all the posts before you post yourself! Understand where the other person is coming from, digest his thoughts, think before you type etc.

We all have different personalities, different senses of humor and different levels of tolerance for others.

There will be NO flaming tolerated! No foul language allowed!

If you're not directly affected or have nothing solid to post...DON"T

The thread will lock down if these rules are not followed!

AAMO Admin

[exeter]

I believe i can answer trin's question, mainly because its usually me with a different name.

Thats just how i am. Im not trying to hide anything, after all, steam shows all. I usually dont play as bobbert . exeter anymore simply because we havent been bobbert very much since i left for the military, most of the time its for old times sake. I stopped using the name Exeter because people constantly pester me about it on other servers. So when i enter your server, its never under Exeter, unless i just finished a playing with other people i know.

And as for the "full of it shots", believe them if you want, or dont, its not my problem. Im tired of people beating around the damn bush about this, if you think I cheat then just say it. I used to value the opinions of most of you folks, especially back when i was only playing on TLO, but seeing as to what happened the other night, i really dont anymore. If you guys dont want me around, thats fine, there are other places i can go.

With that said, what the hell happened the other night? I had my voice turned off due to people spamming on a previous pub, and i was just playing. I turned my voice on to catch some 45grave guy giving hodgie hell, and suddenly i get kicked. I had said or typed anything, i was just simply playing the game. And what made this better? The great response i got from the admin when i got back on. "You were instigating and i got annoyed" . . . wtf? I hadnt spoken at all, making this "excuse" complete and utter crap.

Ex out.

[Admin]

As info:

Ex has been in under 34 different names.

Wulf under 35 different names.

Defiantly extreme, but looking through the stats not entirely rare.

Posted to put this issue into context only Ex and Wulf

[hodgie13]

first of all to the reg. players who where in during this "event" i want to say sorry. a lil to much drink and not enough tolorance to control my out burst.... that being said....
hostility and rage is a good title seeing as that seems to be what you are all about,you repeatedly come in whether under your real names or one you picked and pull off some of the most un believable stuff i have see in a long time of playing.
whether it be shooting through walls sometimes more that 1, sprinting and then 1 shot kills, shooting through mounds or debries on the ground 1 shot kills, more unscoped sniper kills while running, or the good old fashion pass all the flags and camp that exit.
to often i have watched you guys come in and clear the server of reg players,ammo personel also, i have also seen you asked time and again to not camp the exits and after the admin leaves your right back at it till the server is empty. for someone who loves the server and playing with the ppl. in it you have a funny way of showing it.
as far as i can tell the only 1 i don't have a lot of trouble with is amrock.
while some of the stuff you do may be norm. elswhere in here we try not to do this stuff to make the gaming exp. fun for all.
so in short if you can,t listen to and or respect what the admins say or you feel you should come in just to ruin other ppl.s fun perhaps you sould play at 1 of the many other servers you say your style of playing is normal..

[lulznein]

Sorry for the delayed responses, I've been working today. First of all, I would like to ask that anyone else that replies to this thread, please try to add some spaces and punctuation to your posts, because reading walls of text hurts my eyes after filling prescriptions for 12 hours.

To answer Trinity's question :

The reason I personally alias is pretty simple. With the recent server hostility towards myself and the rest of my players, sometimes I just wanna play the game without having to put up with the Bobbert bashing.

My second response will be towards Hodgie. Hodgie, you and myself have had a rash of bashing between ourselves, mostly in good fun, and I just don't understand the recent extreme stances, cursing, and over-all abuse you are showing towards my side of the argument.

This is the third time you've lashed out at myself or one of my Bobberts, only to come back with a "I was drunk" excuse. Now I personally like to sip on a little something here and there, especially when I'm pubbing. But maybe you should refrain from getting so drunk you lose your filter between your brain and your mouth, because frankly, I find it very offensive to be called a "f**king cheater, go die you cheating bastard". I accept your apology, and just hope that you refrain from Irish levels of drinking in the future.

In regards to the "shady shots" calling you constantly throw around, you either need to accuse me of something or drop it. The reasoning behind the shots is simple. I have a headset. I can hear people whenever they are sprinting around. Not only that, but just because you run behind a wall in a hallway does not mean your model has suddenly ceased to exist. I would be more than happy to show you just how "legit" walling or strafing shooting are.

In regards to the spawn camping accusations: I try my hardest to not camp spawn on ToD. I have come from an environment where if you do NOT camp spawn, you will lose your match. Things are different in a pub environment, and I understand that completely. I try to avoid even getting CLOSE to the spawn flags, in an effort to not be accused of spawn camping. In the off chance that I do get close to a spawn (and I only do this to take or hold a flag), i will refrain from shooting in the spawn excepting one condition. I am of the opinion that if someone is SHOOTING at me from within their spawn, or along their spawn wall, that they are free game. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this.

I have recently learned a lot of new tricks in Day of Defeat because I've been playing at the league level for the past year. So I have learned a lot about how the registration on the half-life engine work, as well as a lot of the wall spots and good camp spots on most of the league maps. Does that make me a cheater? I don't consider myself a cheater. I just think I know more about the game than the average pubber.


I am MOST eager to hear from SCAR, who recently cursed at me over the microphones and I have yet to hear a public apology from him. That kind of behavior is inexcusable.

I am eager to continue this discussion, and will be available to answer anyone and everyone's questions, assuming I am not at work at the time. I would really like to settle this hostility once and for all, so please respond and comment if you have two cents to throw into the situation.

Thank you for your responses, I await more questions and concerns.

[lulznein]

I have a quick question for the admins. Why was Exeter removed from the game last night? The admin response we were given was that he was instigating and provoking on the server, but the man didn't even have voice chat on, nor did he type in game. He was simply sniping.

[profbuldge]

Alright, I sent Exeter a PM about it, it's no excuse but I was tired, had a couple beers, and was plain irritated with how childish everyones been acting lately. I hit the wrong button and thought I was still arguing with one of the guys that was causing problems.

I hope we can all get our act together here and just plain have a little fun.

Let's cut it with the jabs for now, even if they are in good fun, because some things get taken personally. We don't know a lot about each others backgrounds so I think it's safe to say that a joke from one person might be taken as a serious statement by another.

OK

I'm sorry about the wrongful kick now everyone GROW UP

That's an order!

[JumpMasterG]

This isn't really my take on all these issues, just an observation about the admin on the server.

The admin here admittedly are kind of feeling our way along as we go. We're NOT the server owners just the care takers. The server literally exploded with players especially after the closing of TLO. Server rules are in the making and must be ran by the owner. In the mean while, right or wrong, we are policing the server in the best way some of us know how.

Each admin has their limits and until a consistent policy is formed it's apt to remain that way. If you like it here you'll have to commit to growing with us, growing pains included.

[[CC]Jordan]

I suppose I can give some advice on the matter as I have dealt with numerous similar situations having been a server admin for about 9 years now spanning 6 games and 8 servers like TLO.

First and foremost, the server owner is a private proprietor and can do with the server as he sees fit. There are no mandatory appeals, set of rules or standards of conduct. However to successfully run a popular server, I highly suggest getting a set of server rules as well as policies on gray areas such as what is spawn camping and when it is/n't acceptable.

Secondly, Admins: Each admin is a person. People have limits and tend to bring whatever baggage from their RL onto the server. New Admins may also feel a superiority complex or a need to be harsh and quick in dealing punishment (Power Hungry). With proper rules, coaching, and accountability such actions can be fixed. Limit the access of commands to new admins for a probationary period.

Thirdly, Players: Each and every player is a GUEST on the owner's server and should act as such. It's ok to complain about some things, but you should never disrupt the gameplay or publicly complain about how the server is run/maintained (It just makes your case harder - Think of a guy coming to your job off the street and telling you how you should be doing it).

When you've been admin long enough you tend to grow thicker skin and are more lenient. Cheating accusations are usually false. If you feel the need to investigate further then spectate the playerand record a demo. Sure he/she will know that you're spectating them but there are only good outcomes from it: a) he/she leaves the server because they are cheating and you no longer have to worry about them. Just report it to the other admins. b) he/she turns out to no be actually cheating. c) he/she toggles the cheats off and is no longer cheating and you report for the other admins. (this one gets sucky because you might spend a lot of time spectating just so the person won't cheat, however if they such so much while they aren't cheating they usually just leave).

[lt]

Hey everybody, just want to post my feelings on this subject.

1.) First of all, I'm glad everybody is stepping up to the plate and taking some responsibility on this subject.

2.) Everybody around here are good people. Sure the bobberts can be a little mouthy sometimes, but they are a good group of guys. They are all pretty good friends outside of just this one game, so if they talk to people like they're just hanging out with their buds, you can't really hold that against them. Sure, Ex might lose his temper from time to time, but he is quick to listen to reason
Over the years, I've played and had good times with all of you. I always try to stay nuetral toward things because you each have your own good qualities. I understand that some people are better than others at this game...but instead of throwing accusations around, why not take the opportunity to become better players yourselves by learning from your comrade's experience? Which leads me to my next point...

3.) League play is very much different that a public server for those of you who have never done it. CAL especially. It is very dog eat dog and you have to learn how to play the game differently if your team is going to survive. The last time I played league for dod was 5 years ago with a clan called Brushsquadron (hence the brush tag I still wear to this day). It was crazy then, I can only imagine what it's like now. However, this is not to say that the bobberts shouldn't keep in mind where they are and whom they are playing. Like one of the greats said "with great power comes great responsibility". You don't have to kick the little guy around just because you can.

4.) Now, I hope I'm not touching on anything out of line here...but to the admins that are new to the job: a lot of people didn't understand why certain things were the way they were on tlo as far as the admins went, but I think that now it's a little easier to understand...being an admin is tough. You have to make decisions for the best of the server and the players on it, and sometimes that's hard to do without letting your personal feelings get in the way. I'm not trying to say anything other than this: you guys are doing a great job, keep it up. Letting this discussion go on so things could get cleared up was the absolute best decision for the server in my opinion. Hats off to the admin team for the wisdom of that decision.

I really thought that I wasn't going to be able to play here anymore after what I saw the other night ( yes, I was there ), but seeing everybody handling this like adults reassures me that we all hang out together in cyberspace for a reason...we're all pretty damn cool people.

Take care and see you server side,

Lt.

[JumpMasterG]

BrushlLt. makes great points under #3.

Although I've never felt any hostilities against anyone who played better than me (and there are plenty) I've always wondered what drove guys to totally annihilate other players who are obviously not as accomplished.

I too realize that playing in CAL league has got to make you an incredible player and the urge to display it has got be strong.
I'm not sure what kind of flawed thinking would drive someone to desire to dominate a server and what there would be to be gained by said domination. Certainly not the love and support of their fellow server mates.

Only at times did I feel some Bobberts were doing this and definitely NOT every time they've entered the server. And in those few times I've had the feeling there WAS some trash talking
coming from them. Still, I tend not to get too bent about it nor am I at 46 years old and having a business and life issues confronting me daily am impressed by it. It's a game, if it's your life fine, but it ain't mine!

Too be fair though, I've also had some fun with the Bobbert gang and feel I've got a decent relationship with the ones I know. I hope that continues.

Finally, although I'm not on par with some guys, I've always felt the desire to give lesser players a tip here and there. Again, it may be as simple as running stopsound or learn to fire while on the move, it was something someone could use.

I don't know the answers to these questions and they can be asked of many more guys than just one clan, but I'd have to ask some guys, have you given anything back? Are you just here to stroke your ego and make mega kills?

Friends are developed. Respect is earned. And an old rock song has a line that says, "And in the end, the love you get, is equal to the love you give".

Corny...maybe. I've told it to my kids a million times!

JumpG

[atomic]

First off I'm glad this thread was moved, discussed, and moved back. Seems like things are coming out.

I was going to let this next piece go, but I changed my mind.

lulznein said:

First of all, I would like to ask that anyone else that replies to this thread, please try to add some spaces and punctuation to your posts, because reading walls of text hurts my eyes after filling prescriptions for 12 hours.

Now see Wulf, why take a cheap shot in a thread that you are seemingly sincere in? Maybe it is your sense of humor, but I'm not sure many found it real "funny". You call out the guy, he responds and then you take a lame shot at him. I guess I don't get it.